I've heard this quite often; the youngsters are good enough only for the shortest format of the game. They are just flat-track bullies.
Firstly, I disagree. Patience. Give them time, and they'll flourish.
Secondly, let's just assume for a moment that the juniors are not as good as the seniors... so?
What can one do? Perhaps, that is the stock we have (and we have to live with it, until the next batch arrives).
Thirdly, I want to know why this constant comparison with seniors?
In a nation of a billion we haven't seen another Sachin (yet). Perhaps that is how it's meant to be.
How unfair is it to compare a Rohit or a Raina to Sachin??
They'll always pale in comparison.
(In fact how many people, from the other teams as well, are comparable to Sachin?)
And why just Sachin, I am against comparing them to Dravid too (not this 2009 wala RD who is masquerading as Rahul Dravid, I mean the Dravid of his prime)... or even Dada.
The point is, more often than not, they (meaning the "young guns") will always come up short because they haven't established themselves yet.
Or maybe they are just not that talented, but they are the best we have right now.
I think we Indian fans must reconcile to the fact that those (Sachin, RD, Saurav...) men were unique.
It was something in the stars; Rahu, Shani, and Ketu (if you will!) aligned perfectly to give us those stalwarts.
And perhaps it will take a while for Indian cricket to produce such magical talent; until then we'll have to make do with the Rainas and the Kohlis.
(And yes, that means we can't keep running back to RD expecting him to rescue the young ones from short pitch bowling...)
And who knows, if we are patient, these freshers might just transform themselves. They may not turn into the next Sachin/Dravid/Saurav, but they might establish their own unique identities.
Case in point, Gambhir.
So, patience Anon.
Pretty much every cricket-playing nation goes through such a churn.
For instance, can the new Pakistani bowlers stand up to the examples set by Wasim, Waqar, Imran?
Or, can the new spinners in Australia be talked about in the same context as Warne?
:-)
No and No.
Some time ago Rohit Brijnath wrote this article about the "famous five" of Indian cricket; a few lines:
We met the Great One in 1989, when he introduced himself to us with high notes hit by bat and vocal chord. Tendulkar may have two children, but for my generation he is always favorite son. Then the rest came. In 1990, The Precise One [Kumble], a scholarly warrior who unveiled his spinning craft with devotion; in 1992, The Defiant One [Ganguly], a steely, stylish man of amusing, aristocratic belligerence; in 1996, The Intense One [Dravid], cricket's student who batted like a monk upholding a vow of discipline; and finally The Elegant One [VVS], who was a Japanese haiku master in a previous life.Wow.
I don't know whether the new "stars" will be able to inspire such writing at the end of their respective careers, but what I am saying is, give youth a chance, they might just surprise us!
27 Maidens bowled!!:
yes they could. but there has to be an element of sincerity and a honest ability to not repeat same mistakes.
I doubt Rohit Sharma or Yusuf Pathan wud accept that they have been given more than required chances and they have not delivered.
they can be part of future teams but to be able to do that, they need to show that they have what it takes to be on top of the game.
few million dollars in a T20 glitz tournament wont make them good to be for succeeding on the highest level.
if this season rohit sharma cud reinvent himself in domestic scene just like Gautam did then who would benefit.
its going to be Indian cricket finally !!
Thanks for Brijnath's link, Leela
You've left out Yuvraj Singh from the mix :) For a guy who has been in the team for close to a decade - he is such a sitting duck for a half decent spinner, or even a bloke who can bounce him out :) :)So what hope is there with the rest even if you give them time :) :)
The point pretty much everyone makes is that the ' youngsters' don't seem to learn from their mistakes. It's all hot air and no substance from the whole lot.
I'm afraid once SRT/RD/VVS retires, this Indian team might start going the WI way !! You'll be left with Sehwag and possibly Gambhir would last outside the subcontinent, but the rest... Would be carnage if they go to South Africa or Australia.
Chandler,
Of course, Rohit hasn't lived up to the hype, hence he is nowhere to be found.
But to call back Dravid on the basis of one series, how silly was that?
Remember the way India capitulated to Mendis in the Asia Cup?
But then they came back and did well.
NC,
Np. Did you read the entire article?
It's brilliant. The best on the famous five yet.
It's personal, that's what makes it so good. Not a lecture, but a love song.
TG,
And, yet despite his flakiness, Yuvraj has starred in memorable victories.
2003 Natwest,
2006, all those chases in Pakistan
2007 T20
2008 series against England at home
...to name a few.
And remember Dravid was such a slow starter. And wasn't Saurav sent back after his debut in 92??
It's all hot air and no substance from the whole lot.
Perhaps with some, not all.
I'm afraid once SRT/RD/VVS retires, this Indian team might start going the WI way !!
Oh c'mon! The Windies don't care abt cricket as much, with basketball and other American sports being major distractions.
In India, the yuppie class might be warming up to football, but most still swear by cricket.
NC,
Yeah. True. No agenda, nothing.
What a way with words.
I don't think the ODI side is going to be in trouble. There's only Tendulkar who will retire after 2011, the rest will be around for a while.
It's a bit unfair to compare Yusuf Pathan and Rohit Sharma. The former hardly ever gets time to settle down before opening up while the latter has batted in the top 5 on a lot of occasions and still doesn't have a big score to his name.
I don't know what more Raina has to do to quell doubts about him. He seems to be clubbed with Rohit Sharma for no reason. One bad series in England doesn't make him a bad batsman.
Dravid and Ganguly were lucky in that they got to play a lot of cricket in both forms of the game when they started out. Playing tests helps batsmen understand different conditions a lot better, it also builds their ability to play longer innings, something essential in any form of cricket. Unfortunately the selectors haven't handed a debut to a middle order batsman since Yuvraj Singh in 2003. It's definitely because of lack of talent, the selectors have been too afraid to bring them in for Tendulkar or Dravid when they were going through a lean run.
Good points Leela. It's been especially disturbing to see that fans are still feeling the effects of that one T20 game against England where India were 'bounced' out.
Having said that, there's no harm in having youngsters earn their place in the side, even if they are made to wait for it; it has worked well for the Australians. I hope that Badri, for example, is not disheartened at being ignored and continues to believe in his test chances.
Mahek,
Except Rohit and Robin Uthappa, I think others have been OK with whatever limited chances they have got.
It's definitely because of lack of talent
I hear Badri is an old-fashioned sorta player, I think he should be tried.
Even if you look at the Aussies the new kids on the block seem so diff than Ponting.
(Where is Warner BTW? ;-))
I don't think the ODI side is going to be in trouble
I agree. It is the tests which I think will be tricky for this SMS/twitter generation.
Suhas,
I agree that they need to earn their place.
No disagreement in that regard.
:-)
yup, the test side is gonna be in trouble bcos the T20 generation would not like the grit and depth of tests.
still we have the first 2 slots, 5 and 6 settled for a while.
what happens to 3 and 4 after RD and ST is a worry.
VVS could still be on for another 3 yrs and Yuvraj Singh should be given long run at 6, who would be 3 and 4 is a real cause for concern.
Chandler,
I can't imagine a day when Sachin & RD will stop playing in tests!
:-)
Yeah, their replacements will be a concern. Hopefully someone will come along.
Number 3 should be fine with Laxman getting that spot. It's about time he batted there instead of Dravid anyway. Yuvraj needs to score big outside the subcontinent. He's played a reasonable amount of cricket in those conditions and it's about time he stepped up. The problem is we didn't try anyone even when Dravid and Tendulkar were struggling and are now stuck with untested players who have played a brand of first class cricket that's very different from how the game is played at the international level.
Leela
I'm not such a big Indian statistics fan, but to take you up on the Yuvraj instance :
1. Natwest - hmm was it only the final he played or was he consistent there ?
2. T20 2007 - he had that one magical innings against Aus in semis, and that one over against Broad ( but considering it's Eng I don't rate it too much :) :) :))
3. Ah Pak - but that's on subcontinental pitches :)
4. Eng at home - didn't he do well only in the first two games ?
And in any event you've been telling tales from the past 3 yrs ( save for that one Natwest series !) , i.e. with the big guns it's taken him close to 6 yrs to show some semblance of a good batsmen.
Just to clarify - I STILL don't rate him good enough to bat against a half decent spinner or half decent pacemen :) :)
Now, if all the big guys are gone - can such leeway be afforded to anyone ?
2. To clarify on the Ind going WI way - I didn't mean cricket would lose other sports ( pigs might fly before that happens !), but that they MIGHT turn into a infuriatingly inconsistent and inept side ! Maybe I'm just talking of a doomsday scenario :)
What the T20 WC in Eng did show though, was that the young guns might not be ready yet, but time is running out fast !
TG,
1. OK I am too tierd to go lookup statistics :-) but apart from the big 3, who can you think of making such a big impression in the past decade or so?
And really even in your own Australia (sorry to get personal!) what is the new stock? Can anyone match Ponting?
(OK I know that Watson (eww) made a century today...)
2. Now, if all the big guys are gone - can such leeway be afforded to anyone ?
Perhaps not. But if one takes a pessimistic view a la Manjrekar, perhaps India has always been an average team with overly passionate fans!
Leela
First up - why apologise for bringing up Australia ? I've been talking of India/Indian players all this while and I'm not going to apologise for it :) :)
Ok just to carry forward the debate a bit more.
For Sehwag/Yuvraj/Zaheer, read Haddin/Clarke/Bracken. Aus went on to win the Champions trophy, while India went out in the group stage.
Why am I bringing this up ? Merely to state that Aus have always played as a team and don't depend on certain individuals to carry them through always !
You asked amongst the new lot who comes close to Ponting - answer is NONE. Ponting to his eternal credit stood out amongst the Aus batsmen since he was THAT GOOD. He must be since they rate him next to the DON.
Aus though don't need anyone like Ponting :) You see they play as a team, so if Ponting or his clone fails, someone else would put his hand up. Don't ask me how they do it, but it invariably happens. Sure there have been the few occasions when no one has done it, but they are humans and not robots.
While this sounds really arrogant, but don't all their big players always rise to the occasion during finals ? Why can't the big players in Indian team do likewise ?
Guess your statement ' India is a average team with overly passionate fans' is spot on. Don't ask me though how to change that :)
I agree it's a difficult time to be an Indian test match hopeful especially, but maybe some of the players would do well to spend the off season playing county cricket, seeing how someone like Michael Hussey benefited greatly from it (he was 30 when he made his test debut, I think). I say this with Badri and Rohit Sharma in mind, mainly.
TG,
I was kidding.
:-)
And I was just quoting Majrekar.
However, I think that (being average) is slowly changing.
Suhas,
I say this with Badri and Rohit Sharma in mind, mainly.
True.
I see that TG is back to his Aussie-boasting ways. Wow it's amazing how the Aussies have done so well without Clarke, Haddin, Bracken. Gee why are Indians whingeing about losing Sehwag, Yuvraj, Zaheer?
Here's a look at how "good" the three Aussies have been the last 2 years.
Michael Clarke
Innings 46
Runs 1400
Avg 35.00
SR 66.35
50s 12
100s 1
Brad Haddin
Innings 28
Runs 867
Avg 32.11
SR 81.48
50s 6
100s 1
Nathan Bracken
Innings 49
Wickets 62
Avg 29.79
SR 39.6
Econ. 4.51
Compare these numbers to those for Sehwag, Yuvraj, Zaheer.
Virender Sehwag
Innings 30
Runs 1439
Avg 49.62
SR 123.41
50s 10
100s 3
Yuvraj Singh
Innings 51
Runs 1858
Avg 41.28
SR 95.82
50s 11
100s 4
Zaheer Khan
Innings 25
Wickets 32
Avg 31.75
SR 40.2
Econ 4.71
Sehwag averages 14 more runs per dismissal than Clarke, he also scores his runs twice as faster. Yuvraj averages 6 more runs per dismissal than Haddin and scores 14 more runs per 100 balls. Bracken averages 2 runs less per wicket and 0.2 runs less per over than Zaheer.
So stop talking about how the Aussies step up on the big stage and don't miss their best players. None of the three they were missing are even close to being their best players. Johnson and Lee have been way better than Bracken since the 2007 World Cup. Ponting, Hussey and Watson have been better with the bat than Clarke and Haddin. And let's not even get into Haddin's keeping, everyone knows he's not the best glovesman in Australia.
Ahem Mahek, by your stats haven't you just proved THE point I am trying to make ? Right I shall make this clear AGAIN !!!!!!!
Aus play as A TEAM, India are a collection of INDIVIDUALS. Last checked cricket was a team sport and in the end it's the wins and trophies that matter. Individual records are fine, but if they don't contribute to a team win - they don't hold much worth, do they ??
Do the Indian stars step up to the plate when it really matters ? Then care to explan their stats in the ODI finals they've reached ? Contrast that to what Aus have done and yet again my point is proved.
But that's IMHO.
If you think otherwise, suit yourself pal. In the end I know who enjoys watching the latter stages of any tournament !
It doesn't prove anything. I'd like to see how they fare when they have Ponting, Hussey and Lee or Johnson out of the side. Oh wait, the Aussies had their asses handed to them by South Africa even when these guys were in the side.
For all this talk of Australia stepping up on the big stage, I should remind you they were knocked out in the first round of the last T20 World Cup. They also lost three games in the one before that, one of which was to lowly Zimbabwe. Way to step up at the big stage!
I can't argue that Aus have been hopeless in T20 and their record shows. But since you do like to throw up stats , here are a few that should show that Aus do step up to the big stage :
1. Last three 50 overs WC winners, with the last two being won UNDEFEATED.
2. Last two Champions trophy winners.
3. Two times , winning 16 tests in a row.
4. Won home and away against ALL test sides.
Come back when ANY TEAM can match up to the standards what Aus have achieved and they we can talk further.
As to Aus getting their a**e owned by South Africa, pray what happened when they went back to South Africa ? Didn't Aus win the test series there ?
Listen pal, when Aus had all their stars , they RULED the world and no one could come close to them. If you want to argue that they didn't step up to the plate when it matters, then this argument would go nowhere !
This much is clear though , while Aus will not dominate like they did earlier, they would fare far better than when India loses their big players.
It's funny how you want Clarke, Haddin, Bracken, Ponting, Lee, Hussey and Johnson out to see how good Aus are ! Fine you think the first three are useless - but what you are expecting is an Aus B side !Some argument this.. At this rate why don't you ask the Aus women side play against any mens team ???
Living on past glory, eh? Haven't these Aussies lost three of their last five test series? And I was talking about the two ODI series they played against South Afica. Last I checked they lost 7 and won 3.
So they won the Champions Trophy. They were much better than the sides they played, but how good was the opposition? West Indies C, a Pakistan side that didn't really need to win, England who they'd just hammered 6-1, and a New Zealand side without Ryder, Oram, Vettori and Tuffey. I'm quaking in my boots thinking how good the Aussies are.
What's with the India-bashing here? You don't see me claiming India is the best side in the world, do you? Or are you one of those high and mighty Indians who love to hate all things Indian because you see it as a sign of intellectual maturity?
This was exactly the response I was expecting you to give. Go back to the first set of arguments where you made the claim Aus players don't step up on the big stage.
I gave you the stats showing exactly what Aus have done and now you say it's past glories !!!! LOL - my point is this - the Aus stars have performed on the big stage and the Indians havent ! Why is this so hard for you to accept ?
And there's no need to get personal. I'm NOT GOING to stoop to your level and respond to that. I merely give facts which you don't/won't seem to accept.
If you can't accept reality, it's not my fault !
Post a Comment